Action Item: Amy Vezza to work with Cindy Morgan and the NMRG Chairs
to find a date for NMRG to be reviewed with the IAB after IETF 113.
DRAFTDRAFTDRAFTDRAFTDRAFT
INTERNET RESEARCH STEERING GROUP (IRSG)
Minutes of the February 22, 2022 IRSG Teleconference
Reported by: Amy Vezza, IETF Secretariat
Corrections from:
Present:
Regrets:
Jane Coffin, GAIA Chair
Sara Dickinson, PEARG Chair
Lars Eggert, At-Large Member
Aaron Falk, At-Large Member
Stephen Farrell, At-Large Member
Jana Iyengar, ICCRG Chair
Wojciech Kozlowski, QIRG Chair
Ari Keränen, T2TRG Chair
Mallory Knodel, HRPC Chair
Mirja Kühlewind, MAPRG Chair
Jen Linkova, PANRG Chair
Leandro Navarro, GAIA Chair
Dave Oran, ICNRG Chair
Dave Plonka, MAPRG Chair
Vincent Roca, NWCRG Chair
Shivan Sahib, PEARG Chair
Eve Schooler, COINRG Chair
Stanislav Smyshlyaev, CFRG Chair
Brian Trammell, PANRG Chair
Rod van Meter, QIRG Chair
Christopher Wood, PEARG Chair
1.2 Bash the Agenda
1.3 Action Item Review
DONE
IN PROGRESS
2.2 In IESG Conflict Review
The document was approved by the IESG at the February 17, 2022 IESG
Teleconference.
2.3 In IRSG Final Poll
2.4 In IRSG Reviews
The document was updated recently. Marie-José Montpetit to re-review
the changes made.
Revisions to the document are being discussed in the research group.
The document will go forward with draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-
generation when there is resolution in the ongoing discussion.
The document needs a revision.
Spencer Dawkins said the discussion regarding changes to the document
are being discussed.
2.5 In IRTF Chair Review
Colin Perkins reported the authors are working on a revision.
The discussion for the document is active on the mailing list.
NMRG was identified as a possible research group to review with the
IAB as it was last reviewed at IETF 92 [March 2015].
The NMRG Chairs agreed to review the research group with the IAB after
IETF 113.
3.2 COINRG Interim Meeting Updates
Marie-José Montpetit said there was discussion at the interim meeting
on what appropriate use of a research group was.
Dirk Kutscher said the research presentation on dataplane programming
was interesting and he would be interested in more invited
presentations.
Marie-José agreed, and noted she had a number of discussions with the
researcher about what would be of interest to the research group.
Carsten Bormann mentioned he had spoken with a researcher and
mentioned he may find more interested people in the IRTF. He suggested
the IRSG network at other events to bring more interesting research
topics to be presented at the IRTF.
Colin Perkins agreed that broad advertisement would be useful.
Jeffrey He said he sent email to the IRSG about finding participants
from researchers, engineers, and industry and how they fit within the
IRTF. He said there were three related issues. One on the incentive
for academics to participate in the IRTF, one on academic use in
industry, and one on the function of the informational RFCs for the
IRTF.
Jeffrey said when the COINRG invited academics to present their papers
they were happy as it cost them very little. Most of them had slides
already prepared they could reuse. However, those participants were
mostly transitory. The second group were academics looking for real
issues in the industry they could look at and help solve. This was
more promising for long-term work in the IRTF. These may transition to
IETF work at some point in the future, but had to start in research.
Lixia Zhang said her research group is not related to her day job.
Colin Perkins said that presenters could come and present on any
interesting work, it did not matter if it was "day job" related.
Lixia agreed. She said presenting at the IRTF was not about citations
for her. It was about what work would be useful and how the research
group could help move it forward.
Melinda Shore said she had a different problem. She had lots of people
from industry and NGOs to participate, it was more difficult to find
academics.
Dirk Kutscher agreed. He said differentiating between groups was a
distraction. He was more interested in continuous work on important
topics. He also did not want to see any kind of checklist that work
would be measured against. He believed if people were given a
checklist they would try to fulfil the list and not just do the work.
Colin Perkins said a lot of groups co-locate with the IETF that may
look like the IETF but were not. IRTF topics are not necessarily IETF
topics. The IRTF does not constrain problems to drive a specification
forward like the IETF does. He wants to encourage a shift in the
mindset toward more research.
Dirk agreed. He said there was no one best way to run a meeting.
Sometimes there were inspiring research papers, and sometimes there
was more of a deep dive discussion.
Colin noted some research was more mature and some topics were very
very new.
Allison Mankin said the role of the IRTF was in service to the work,
and research groups are contiguous to the IETF. Lots of IRTF work
matures and moves to the IETF. They are linked, not separate.
Colin agreed. He said the benefit of the IRTF is that it sits next to
the IETF. He wants to make sure the IRTF continues to be rooted in the
research.
Marie-José Montpetit said the past couple of years has been a
challenge to get work done in academia and industry. She said there
would always be a balance between what is research, and where product
starts. The IRTF is about the research.
Colin said that it was important to keep in mind the difference
between research and IETF Standards work, and RG Chairs can say no to
topics that don't advance the research objective. He reminded the IRSG
that there were many ways to run meetings, and not to feel constrained
by the IETF Meeting cadence. He encouraged flexibility.
Allison said they once had a very productive meeting on the beach.
[laughter]
Colin Perkins said the chairs for the ANRW will be Tijay Chung from
Virginia Tech and Marwan Fayed from Cloudflare. The Call for Papers
would be available soon.
5.2 AUTH48 Public Mail Archives
Colin Perkins said the proposal for a public email archive is being
discussed. The proposal is that the RFC Editor would add the archive
email in CC to increase the transparency of what changes are made in
the AUTH48 process. He asked if the IRSG had objections to adding the
IRTF Stream to the proposed AUTH48 public email archive.
Alexey Melnikov had no objection and said it would be good to be
transparent on changes made in the process.
Spencer Dawkins agreed. He added some mail threads in the AUTH48
exchange with the RFC Editor were more valuable than others, as
discussions could easily go off topic.
Colin agreed, and said that if the discussion on the mail wandered off
topic the IRSG could remind authors the purpose of AUTH48.
5.3 Update on diversity travel grant
Three IRTF Travel Grants have been awarded; with IETF Secretariat
working with the recipients. One awardee from Pakistan, one from
Brazil, one from Chile. Reese Enghardt will be the point of contact at
IETF 113.
5.4 IRTF at IETF 113 discussion
*** Current RGs that requested time at IETF 113: CFRG, COINRG, HRPC,
ICNRG, IRTFOPEN, MAPRGF, NMRG, PANRG, PEARG, QIRG
Marie-José Montpetit said none of the chairs for her Research Groups
would be in Vienna, so they have recruited people to monitor the room
during the meeting.
Colin Perkins reminded the IRSG that Meetecho had been extended to
support remote chairing of sessions. Colin said the two ANRP talks
would take place in IRTFOpen, both to be presented remotely. He also
reminded chairs to use the IRTF version of the Note Well slides, and
to highlight the IETF Code of Conduct.