November 9, 2010
Sent to: Mr Yusuke HIWASAKI hiwasaki.yusuke@lab.ntt.co.jp
Mr Yusuke HIWASAKI,
Please find enclosed a liaison statement from the IETF CODEC working group to ITU-T SG16, concerning the progress of codec standardization work at IETF. This liaison is informative in nature.
Thank you,
Jonathan Rosenberg
CODEC WG co-chair
May 25,2010
Received from ITU:
To: IETF Codec WG
Chair(s): Michael KNAPPE; Cullen JENNINGS; Jonathan ROSENBERG
Secretariat: N/A
Dear Sirs,
I am pleased to inform you that Mr Yusuke HIWASAKI, NTT, Email: hiwasaki.yusuke@lab.ntt.co.jp, has been appointed as ITU-T Study Group 16 representative to for speech codec development matters.
We would be glad should you acknowledge such appointment and provide her with access to your documentation, work areas and mailing lists, so that he can be kept abreast of your work and support the coordination of work between our groups.
We will be glad to provide an equivalent access to our documentation, work areas and mailing lists, should you let us know the contact details of a nominated representative from into ITU-T Study Group 16.
This nomination will be updated / reconfirmed periodically. Please let us know should you need any further information.
Best regards,
Liaison Statement
To: ITU SG 16 Q8, 9, 10/16
For Information
Source: IETF CODEC Working Group, Real-Time Applications and Infrastructure Area (RAI)
Date: May 5, 2010
Speech and Audio Coding Standardization
The IETF would like to thank the ITU for liaison statement COM 16 – LS 124 – E, which was received November 2009. This statement calls attention to the mature codec development process within the ITU, and discusses the role of royalty free codecs. In particular, it indicates that several royalty free codecs have been standardized by the ITU, but that such criteria cannot be included in the terms of reference for codec standardization. The liaison also points out that elimination of third-party IPR is almost impossible, and warns that including royalty-free as an upfront goal will result in wasted time if IPR is later brought to light on the codec that has been produced.
Firstly, the IETF would like to give an update on the status of codec activities within the IETF. On 26 January 2010, the IETF formally approved the formation of the Internet Wideband Codec (CODEC) working group. Its charter called for three documents to be produced – a guidelines draft which discusses the work process for the group, a requirements document which defines requirements for the codec, and a specification of the codec itself. The charter can be found at http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/codec/charter/. The initial chairs of this group were Michael Knappe (mknappe@juniper.net) and Peter St. Andre (stpeter@stpeter.im). However, the subsequent election of Peter to the IESG caused him to step down, replaced by Jonathan Rosenberg (jdrosen@jdrosen.net) and Cullen Jennings (fluffy@cisco.com).
The group met for the first time as a formal working group from March 21-26 in Anaheim. The focus of activities at this meeting was around the requirements and codec process. There was also discussion on candidate codecs. Minutes can be found at http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/10mar/minutes/codec.html. The group has also adopted a requirements document as a working group item. The current draft can be found at http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-codec-requirements/.
The IETF is very much aware of the mature development process within the ITU around codec standardization. Indeed, one of the first deliverables of the IETF CODEC group will be a definition of our work process. The IETF would like to solicit input from the ITU on this document and the process it outlines, and invites any and all ITU experts to directly participate in the IETF process in order to leverage their expertise. We remain hopeful that a collaborative process will produce an excellent codec through combination of technical ideas, rather than going through a selection process. ITU experts are invited to join the discussions on the public mailing list, codec@ietf.org. Information on joining this list can be found at https://www.ietf.org/mailman//listinfo/codec. The IETF looks forward to your participation.
As you can see by the charter, selection of a codec that can be widely distributed and utilized on the Internet remains a critical goal for us. A full set of requirements are being collected and placed into the requirements document. The IETF would be quite pleased if an existing codec can be found which meets all of the requirements. In such a case (and of course based on working group consensus), we would merely reference that codec rather than specifying a new one. The IETF would very much welcome input from ITU on how its codecs map to the requirements that we are producing, and we invite you to contribute such information through participation in the discussions at codec@ietf.org.
We look forward to continued interaction with ITU as we move through this process.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Rosenberg
Co-Chair, CODEC Working Group
November 9, 2010
Liaison from Jonathan R to 3GPP:
To: Susanna.Kooistra@etsi.org, hannu.hietalahti@nokia.com,
Stefan.Bruhn@ericsson.com, Cullen Jennings fluffy@cisco.com,
Michael Knappe mknappe@juniper.net,
Robert Sparks rjsparks@nostrum.com,
Gonzalo Camarillo Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com
Subject: Liaison statement from IETF to 3GPP concerning codec standardization
Susanna,
Please find enclosed a liaison statement from the IETF codec working
group to 3GPP, concerning codec standardization activities. This liaison
is informative in nature.
Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. SkypeID: jdrosen
Chief Technology Strategist Mobile: +1 (732) 766-2496
Skype SkypeIn: +1 (408) 465-0361
jdrosen@skype.net http://www.skype.com
jdrosen@jdrosen.net
May 18, 2010: Jonathan R. confirms that this can wait until the end of June.
Email Reply from 3gpp on May 11, 2010 from Susanna Kooistra:
Thanks Jonathan, the LS has been registered for next SA4 meeting (21 - 24 June 2010).
Best regards,
Susanna Kooistra
3GPP Liaison Co-ordinator
Mobile Competence Centre (MCC), ETSI
Phone: +33 (0)4 92 94 49 35
Fax: +33 (0)4 92 38 52 83
E-mail: 3gppliaison@etsi.org
Reply from Hannu Hietalahti on May 11, 2010:
Thanks for reply, Jonathan,
Susanna, this is in the SA4 area, so can you input it to their next meeting, please.
SA4 just had their meeting and their next one is only after TSG SA #48. This reply LS seems informative and requires neither action nor response from SA4, so it looks like it can safely wait to be handled in SA4 #59 in Prague at the end of June?
If the above understanding is not correct and the LS is for some reason more urgent than I thought, then please let me know about it so that we can put the LS on fast track by CC:ing it to TSG SA which takes place sooner that SA4.
I CC also SA4 chair Kari Jarvinen and TSG SA chair Stephen Hayes for their information.
BR,
Hannu Hietalahti
3GPP TSG CT Chairman
tel: +358 40 5021724
Liaison reply sent to 3gpp on May 10, 2010.
Liaison Statement
To: 3GPP SA WG4, Stefan Bruhn
For Information
Source: IETF CODEC Working Group, Real-Time Applications and Infrastructure Area (RAI)
IETF Contact person: Jonathan Rosenberg jdrosen@jdrosen.net
Date: May 5, 2010
The IETF would like to thank you for your liaison statement dated August 24, 2009 regarding codec discussions within the IETF.
Firstly, the IETF would like to give an update on the status of codec activities within the IETF. On 26 January 2010, the IETF formally approved the formation of the Internet Wideband Codec (CODEC) working group. Its charter called for three documents to be produced – a guidelines draft which discusses the work process for the group, a requirements document which defines requirements for the codec, and a specification of the codec itself. The charter can be found at http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/codec/charter/. The initial chairs of this group were Michael Knappe (mknappe@juniper.net) and Peter St. Andre (stpeter@stpeter.im). However, the subsequent election of Peter to the IESG caused him to step down, replaced by Jonathan Rosenberg (jdrosen@jdrosen.net) and Cullen Jennings (fluffy@cisco.com).
The group met for the first time as a formal working group from March 21-26 in Anaheim. The focus of activities at this meeting was around the requirements and codec process. There was also discussion on candidate codecs. Minutes can be found at http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/10mar/minutes/codec.html. The group has also adopted a requirements document as a working group item. The current draft can be found at http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-codec-requirements/.
To address the specific points made in your liaison statement:
Firstly, the IETF is most certainly aware of the codec work done in 3GPP, and in particular both the AMR and AMR-WB codecs. At this time, the IETF CODEC group has not made any decisions on whether to select an existing codec or create a new one that meets its requirements. The ability to widely distribute this codec on the Internet remains a critical goal for us, and is discussed in our charter and in the documents above. Payment of royalties is certainly a hindrance to widespread adoption, and though the IETF is not ruling out the selection of a codec which requires payment of royalties, it is a major consideration. We would welcome your participation in the discussions and any clarifications you can offer on whether AMR-WB can meet our goals for widespread adoption, and whether it can be made available without royalties, without requirements for obtaining a license, without requiring a business agreement, and so on.
Secondly, your liaison statement expresses concerns about IETF involvement in codec standardization. This was considered at length in the formation of the working group. However, the IETF concluded that our goal of widespread and open availability of a codec on the Internet was one that could not easily be met under the existing processes of other SDOs, and that this requirement was unique relative to functional ones which are certainly readily fed into existing processes within ITU, 3GPP and MPEG. Certainly there was a concern that IETF did not have the expertise to do this work. However, the IETF participants are not a fixed set of people or companies, and it is both open and varied across working groups based on interest. We found that this activity attracted many participants with deep expertise in codec design, who were willing to participate and bring their expertise to the IETF. Of course, the IETF would still like to have actively involvement and participation from experts from other SDOs, and we would welcome involvement from 3GPP.
Certainly we share the concern that a proliferation of standards is a hindrance to interoperability. However, in this case, the opposite appears to be true – the lack of a wideband codec that can be freely distributed and used across many Internet applications has prevented there from being a single, baseline codec that vendors are comfortable implementing in their products. As such, we believe that the results of our activities will improve interoperability and not hinder it.
Your liaison statement also raises the concern that the requirements for the IETF work would not properly consider requirements for transmission across existing systems, such as 3GPP networks. Certainly the IETF believes that a key goal is for this codec to work across the Internet at large, and that includes a wide range of underlying IP transport systems, from existing 3G wireless systems, to LTE, to the rich set of wired broadband transports. If there are specific requirements that are absent from our documentation, we would very much like to receive them and ensure that they are properly considered.
The IETF has had a long and fruitful relationship with 3GPP. Our cooperation on IMS standards is certainly one of the success stories in inter-SDO partnerships. We look forward to continued cooperation with 3GPP, and would very much welcome your active participation and involvement in our process.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Rosenberg
CODEC working group co-chair
Liaison statement received from 3gpp
August 24, 2009
[https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/562/]
Liaison sent to ogura@itscj.ipsj.or.jp by Jonathan Rosenberg May 10, 2010:
Liaison Statement
To: ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 29/WG 11
For Information
Source: IETF CODEC Working Group, Real-Time Applications and Infrastructure Area (RAI)
IETF Contact person: Jonathan Rosenberg jdrosen@jdrosen.net
Date: May 5, 2010
Thank you for your liaison statement dated November 5, 2009.
Firstly, the IETF would like to give an update on the status of codec activities within the IETF. On 26 January 2010, the IETF formally approved the formation of the Internet Wideband Codec (CODEC) working group. Its charter called for three documents to be produced – a guidelines draft which discusses the work process for the group, a requirements document which defines requirements for the codec, and a specification of the codec itself. The charter can be found at http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/codec/charter/. The initial chairs of this group were Michael Knappe (mknappe@juniper.net) and Peter St. Andre (stpeter@stpeter.im). However, the subsequent election of Peter to the IESG caused him to step down, replaced by Jonathan Rosenberg (jdrosen@jdrosen.net) and Cullen Jennings (fluffy@cisco.com).
The group met for the first time as a formal working group from March 21-26 in Anaheim. The focus of activities at this meeting was around the requirements and codec process. There was also discussion on candidate codecs. Minutes can be found at http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/10mar/minutes/codec.html. The group has also adopted a requirements document as a working group item. The current draft can be found at http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-codec-requirements/.
The IETF is also soliciting contributions - from anyone - with proposed codecs which can meet the requirements described above. We would be happy to consider the AAC-LD and AAC-ELD codecs, and would welcome IETF Internet Drafts describing them. The IETF would also welcome participation from any subject matter experts. Experts can join the mailing list, codec@ietf.org, by visiting the link above. As you are probably aware, participation in the mailing list is open to any and all who would wish to do so.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Rosenberg, CODEC working group co-chair
ISO/IEC liaison statement SC 29 N 10775, dated November 5, 2009, was received. (need URL!)